At the Kapihan sa Senado forum, Sen. Lacson answered questions on:
– irregularities involving the PhilHealth board and Chairman Francisco Duque III
– maritime ‘hit-and-run’ at the West Philippine Sea
– dealing with ‘critics’
Quotes from the forum…
On Malacanang’s claim it is dangerous for President Duterte to express outrage over the ‘hit-and-run’ incident at the WPS:
“That is also correct. Kasi sensitive ang issue. Dapat medyo maingat din sa pagsasalita ang Pangulo pagka nagbibigay ng statement. But kung napansin ninyo, si PRRD wala siyang manuscript. Every time na magsasalita siya sa public engagement, bihirang bihira natin nakikitang may binabasa siya. Well on one hand, maganda yan kasi alam nating he speaks his mind and he speaks from the heart, and it projects sincerity and transparency. On the other hand, medyo risky ang ganoon dahil he tends to be emotional when he expresses himself. Baka naman ang sinabi niya di talaga yan ang dapat sasabihin, hindi naging calibrated, especially pagka ang involved ang issues na ganoon kasensitibo, mas maganda siguro, and we see it in other leaders of the world.”
“Pagka napaka-sensitive ang mga issues involved, dapat may pinag-aralang statement na hindi ang dating dishonest o hindi talagang gusto niya sabihin. I’m not suggesting anything. It’s just me making my own observation and possibly my own analysis kaya minsan napapabigla ang statement at nanganganak ang issue kaya may reactions. But I leave it up to them kasi si Presidente as a mayor puso talaga may binabasang manuscript. And this is the Republic of the PH we are talking about. And I think we could do well kung meron talagang pag-iingat nang kaunti sa pagpapahayag ng statement o paglabas ng statement na galing sa Presidente mismo.”
“Ang main issue sa akin ang pagkasabi niya ang dating, and I think wala namang disagreement, parang naging masyadong defensive instead doon sa ating mga fishermen, e doon pa sa nag-cause ng ramming, ng allision na sinasabi at nag-abandon. Ganoon ang naging dating, at nagkaroon ng controversy.”
“Ang mga Cabinet secretaries lalo ang spokesperson is not helping any dahil lalong nagkagulo-gulo dahil huling statement na nakakita agad siya ng butas sa pahayag ng mga fishermen, parang ang mindset niya defense counsel na nag-enter ng appearance for China. If he were in a courtroom ganoon ang dating, kasi parang nakita niya agad nakita nyo, ito sinasabi ng cook. But of course ang cook sa Malacanang nang tinatanong at nagkaroon ng transcript and converted into a sworn statement. That’s another matter concerning the cook. All the other fishermen iba ang sinasabi. So subliminal para sa akin ang kanyang reaction agad, nakakita ako ng butas so walang kasalanan ang China. Di ba ang expression na ganoon ang dating agad, parang defense counsel siya ng China.”
“May reason naman para sumama ang loob kasi nakita natin ang unang pahayag di ba, halos maiyak siya at very powerful ang kanyang statement at talagang nakakabagabag ng damdamin bilang Pilipino sabi niya as a common fisherman na ang livelihood sa WPS Recto Bank, nagsasalita na alipin na ba tayo ng China? Which to me parang nagre-reflect sa sentiment hindi lang ng mangingisda na ang livelihood naroon kundi ng pangkaraniwang Pilipinong nagmamasid sa mga kaganapan sa WPS. Yan ang naging projection. This is not the first time we heard about a GMA reporter being driven away. May nakita rin tayo tinataboy na mga fishermen. Kaya when you asked me to comment on this whole issue, this controversy, naisip ko ang MDT. Hindi ko naman sinasabi na i-implement kaagad because malinaw naman, alam ko rin naman dahil matagal ko na nabasa yan na armed attack on any vessel is deemed or considered an attack on either the US or Republic of the PH. So ganoon naman talaga yan. Pero hihintayin ba natin magkaroon ng sitwasyon kung saan ang PCG o isang fishing vessel na halimbawa nag-resist e paputukan ng China? Mangyayari na yan.”
“What’s on my mind, kung halimbawa in-invoke natin o sabihin nating nariyan yan and it’s invokable, ang MDT, ano naman ba ang gamitin inatin yan para balansehin ang power sa WPS para ma-avert o proactively ma-preempt na natin ang posibleng armed hostilities na mangyayari roon. Masama ba yan? But ang reaction ng Palasyo, premature. Ano gusto nila, mangyari na muna bago tayo gumawa ng notice sa US na kailangan namin? And alam ninyo may dumadalaw din naman sa amin na mga officials from the US Embassy, from the US itself. Napagusapan din namin ito at nagtatanong sila. Ano ba ang maitutulong ng US sa nangyayari sa WPS? Ako consistently sinasabi ko what you can do given this situation is probably to maintain the balance of power in that area. And it doesn’t mean war. Gusto ba natin militarization lang ng China ang prevalent doon? Kasi sabi nga ni SND Lorenzana, pag in-invoke natin ang MDT, ang dating, militarization. Mas mainam na ang militarization from both sides kasi … kasali tayo roon and probably some military presence from other ASEAN countries. Mas mainam yan kesa militarization na nakikita natin na puro sa China na lang, wala na tayo. Parang wala na tayong, walang say ika nga, sa WPS.”
“I leave it up to them. Sila naman ang nasa executive branch. Call nila yan. Sa akin lang I’m also expressing what I think should be done given the circumstances. So whether they take it or not it is up to them, it is their call actually. Na-remind lang ako because I heard the US State Secretary speak on the matter. Sabi niya they are under obligation to come to the aid of the PH, referring to the WPS in case na magkaroon ng ganoong armed attack. And I’m also echoing dahil alam ko naman ang particular provision na yan sa MDT, basta nasa Pacific area at nagkaroon ng assault on any of the US or PH vessels there, basta armed attack, talagang pwede mag-respond ang either party. Yan ang nilalaman noon. Di ibig sabihin at ayoko naman, hindi naman tayo nananawagan ng giyera. Hindi naman ganoon eh.”
On accounts of the crew of the Vietnamese boat that rescued the 22 Filipino fishermen:
“If we were to conduct a thorough investigation kailangan talaga lahat na posibleng makapagbigay ng tunay na account dapat makausap natin. Kasi ang narinig lang naman natin ang pahayag ng mga fishermen as against pahayag ng spokesperson ng foreign ministry ng China. Di nga natin narinig pahayag ng mismong crew ng Chinese vessel. Siyempre pagka foreign ministry spokesman nagsalita, filtered na yan. At napansin ninyo, naglabas sila unang kalatas. Nang nakita nila ops mali ang script natin, pinalitan nila. Lalong nakakaduda yan so sa akin importante kung ano ang official position ng China, because that will show or prove sincerity ng pakikipagkaibigan ng China sa atin. Kasi kung ang official posture ng gobyerno ng China or leadership is to cover up, medyo hindi maganda yan.”
“Sa investigation yan ang corroboration. At may value yan. Kasi kung isa lang party narinig mo at walang corroboration, medyo ika nga, although di ko sinasabing walang value sa investigation ang sinabi ng mga fishermen. But they themselves, 22 of them kung pareho ang sinasabi, that’s corroboration in itself. Pero ito disinterested party ang Vietnamese crew, lalong mabolster ang pahayag ng fishermen natin as against the Chinese spokesperson speaking on behalf of the members of the crew. Sa akin sana na-settle ito, at least mollified tayong mga nagmamasid na Pilipino kung agad-agad nag-issue ng apology ang China instead of defending or even effectively accusing our fishermen of lying. Kinokontra nila sabi nila hindi totoo ang sinasabi ng mga fishermen. Kaya lang nangyai yan they were besieged by 7-8 other vessels. Ang WPS may bantay naman talaga riyan na satellite. I’m sure the US government as equally interested as they are, meron silang monitoring diyan. Narinig natin pahayag ng US Embassy they are also conducting some kind of investigation to get to the bottom of that incident.”
On apology putting the issue to rest:
“At the very least ma-mollify tayong Pilipino. Ang outrage di kasing tindi ng nakikita natin ngayon kung agad-agad pending the result of any investigation since muntik na nga mamatay at iniwanan, nag-issue sana sila ng apology. Sa akin lang yan. Ganyan naman tayo. Tayo likas mapagpatawad at hindi tayo talagang gustong nananakmal agad. Pag nakita nating nagpakumbaba ang naka-damage, medyo tayo hindi ganoon katindi ang ating naging reaction.”
“Dahil kung sabihin nila base sa kanilang investigation may sa atin malinaw yan kasi even assuming aksidente ang nangyari, bakit mo iniwan? Ang pahayag ng captain ng crew binalikan pa sila to make sure lulubog ang kanilang bangka pagkatapos saka umatras, umalis.”
“(But) you cannot ask an apology from anybody. It cannot be demanded, it is only given. Maski ako if someone will ask me to apologize, I will not apologize; it should come from me. At ang apology when demanded it lacks sincerity. Nawala ang sincerity ng apology kung ginawa mo lang kasi dinemand na mag-apologize ka.”
On whether President Duterte should apologize to fishermen:
“Action speaks louder than words. In this case, lahat ginagawa ng Malacanang to assist. Sabi nila papunta si Sec Pinol to assist the fishermen. Bibigyan sila ng mga bangka. Sa akin mas maganda pa yan kesa apology na manggagaling na pwedeng interpret as lip service. Pero kung the act itself of making amends or parang nagpapakita ka ng, yun na rin yan. Parang in so many ways parang nag-apologize ka na rin kasi tinutulungan mo. Mas maganda pa nga ang ganoon, without saying anything, nag-a-attend ka sa pangangailangan ng fishermen. Maganda ang gesture na yan.”
On the long-term solution to the issue:
“Sa akin dahil nakita ko meron tayong ‘weapon’ na pwede magamit, parang preemptive and proactive. At willing naman ang (US), I’ve been talking to some officials either from the embassy or from visiting officials na galing mismo sa US. Pag napagusapan namin sa WPS ang reaction lang nila they are okay but they are reluctant because nakikita nila na medyo malapit ang pakikipagkaibigan ni PRRD sa China kesa sa US. Ang expression nga na natanggap ko is, we’re willing but we’re reluctant because of ang pinapakita ng Pangulo na pakikipagkaibigan niya mas sa China. Baka mamaya magpadala sila roon to maintain the balance of power, e baka masamain at alam naman nila kinikilala nanalo tayo sa arbitral tribunal, baka mamasama pa sila. So there is reluctance on their part. Kung open tayo sila nariyan, they are very much willing.”
“As I said, this is a policy decision by the executive branch. Ang Senate, while we are considered policy makers, pagdating sa foreign policy, ultimately that’s the responsibility of the President. He has his alter-ego in the person of the SFA and other advisers like the SND, and so forth. It’s really their call kung mag-reassess or whatever.”
“It could increase the tension but sabi ko nga no 2 superpowers will want to go to war. Alam natin in this day and age of nuclear technology, going to war is too devastating. Sa akin lang is mas mainam meron din tinitingnan ang isang party, in this case China, na huwag tayo magabuso roon dahil baka mauwi sa giyera. Sa akin is preemptive, proactive. I’m not saying we should go to war. In fact I qualified my statement we should not pray for war. That’s the least we should even consider. Pero mas mainam na yan kesa sa di ba pag may balance of power lalong naiwasan ang giyera? Hintayin pa ba natin na umabot sa magpaputok ang halimbawa Chinese Coast Guard naputukan ang PH vessel o kaya Coast Guard vessel natin, saka tayo… buhay na yan kung may mamatay. Mas mainam na proactive tayo magisip. Ang backward thinkers laging naiiwanan yan. Ang counterparts nila mga forward-thinking counterparts nakauwi na, nagce-celebrate ng victory nagmemeryenda na sila nag-navigate pa paano pumunta sa finish line. Kung ganoon ang mentality, kaya natawa ako nang sinabi ni Sec Panelo na premature and Sec Nograles na hindi pwede i-apply. Di ko sinasabing implement o apply. Very clear ang aking statement na preemptive and proactive ito to avert whatever abuses or whatever further incidents na magkaroon pa ng armed attack from Chinese armed militia or even military.”
On President Duterte’s valuing friendship with China and love for country:
“While he values his friendship with China, alam din naman natin mas mahal pa rin niya ang PH kasi naging Presidente at lahat. At alam natin gaano kasidhi ang gusto niya ma-solve ang problema ng bansa in terms of drugs, corruption. Methodology nga lang ang medyo kinu-question natin on both counts. Ang fight vs illegal drugs and fight against corruption. Pero nakita natin ang kagustuhan niyang talagang ma-solve. And if that is not love of country, I don’t know what is. And I understand his predicament because he is now torn between his friendship with China and kanyang patriotism kaya medyo hirap din siya. But as I said earlier ang messaging baka medyo ligaw ng kaunti. But if we look into his mind, makita natin kung ano talaga ang mas matimbang.”
On China showing sincerity and arresting/punishing those responsible for the hit-and-run:
“There’s always a resolution in the horizon. Ang problema, as long as one or both parties are insincere in dealing with the situation, we cannot come to a desired resolution. Pwedeng ma-relegate sa dustbin or makalimutan natin, hindi na-resolve ang issue. But sabi ko nga kailangan sincere ang both parties in really telling the truth about what actually happened. And then move on from there. But we cannot resolve this if one party is not willing to tell the truth.”
“To me that would be a very good sign of sincerity and reciprocating the friendship we accorded to them. Kung gagawin nila yan.”
“The DFA has already taken action. Sec Locsin has moved forward than just filing a diplomatic protest, file na siya sa IMO. Siya na rin nagsabi felony ang tawag niya, act of abandoning is a felony. So we take it up from there and see what happens next.”
“Sa akin compensation is just material. Mas maganda maski walang involved na compensation, maipakita talagang kaibigan ko kayo, then I will take care of my own countrymen. Mas maganda yan. That is far, far more significant than compensating. Ang dating lang natin pag sinagasaan ka binigyan ka ng pera hoy magpagamot ka nga, at quits na tayo. Hindi natin ma-appreciate yan. Pero nasagasaan ka dinalaw ka sa ospital araw-araw pinupuntahan ka, dinadalhan ka ng bulaklak mas magandang gesture yan. Yan ang tunay na kaibigan.”
On Recto Bank incident taken up at ASEAN summit:
“Marami. UN, our allies, tapos ASEAN. Pag naramdaman din na malakas ang international pressure, maski papano no man is an island. Walang isang nation na mag-e-exist or magsa-subsist na walang kapitbahay. So yan sinasabi kong international pressure. Pag naramdaman ng country especially losing party in an arbitral ruling na malakas ang international pressure, baka sakaling magbigay.
“Any forum especially ang ASEAN forum. If you recall during the time of former PGMA, nagkaroon ng agreement among ASEAN countries na they will put up a common stand pag hinarap nila ang China on the issue of the WPS. Pero nangyari nang pumasok tayo sa joint exploration we abandoned all of a sudden, nagsolo tayo sa pakikipagusap sa China. And the NBN ZTE controversy had something to do with that kasi pumasok na ang personal interests. Nag-expand eh. At the time I was told, China in their desire to have a joint exploration with PH, they were so generous na maski anong hingi ng PH additional in terms of grant they were willing to give. E pinasukan ng kalokohan dahil pumasok din ang personal interests. You know the history of the NBN ZTE controversy. Sec may P200M ka rito. So pinasukan ng greed. Kaya inabandon ng ASEAN countries. Question: is it too late for us to deal again with the ASEAN countries to put up a common stand? After all they are also claimant countries coming from ASEAN. Yan sana usapan noon. But we have lost the credibility to deal with them again. Sana mawala ang reputation natin na nang-iiwan tayo ng mga kasama natin.”
On Philhealth irregularities:
“Based on information coming in, hindi matatapos itong fraud or controversy sa PhilHealth because it has been ingrained in their system. For the longest time they have been squandering PhilHealth funds. Importante pagusapan din natin because ang Universal Health Care will be implemented this year. There’s P217B appropriated by Congress and there’s another P22B expected from sin tax. Pati contribution, ang total requirement ng UHC for this year alone is P257B. We are talking of hundreds of billions of pesos. When we hear P250B being wasted over time, then it is revolting to say the least because we’re all practically members of PhilHealth.”
“I have the documents, na there are several modus operandi nag-e-exist sa PhilHealth. One is yung paulit-ulit ang sakit. There’s another modus operandi kung saan ang hospital mismo na in cahoots with PhilHealth, nagbibigay ng report extending confinement of patients na discharged na, para makakolekta sa PhilHealth. A case in point. Perpetual Succor Hospital in Cebu nagkaroon ng kaso because the PhilHealth board is a quasi-judicial body. They can investigate and impose penalties. In this particular case, kung hindi kasabwat ang PhilHealth and this is current, because the decision was issued just this year, Jan 10, 2019. And Sec Duque being ex-oficio chairman of the board, is one of the signatories. Look. There’s a complaint for 2 counts of unauthorized extension of confinement yung hospital. Nang investigate ng PhilHealth board nakita nila may liabiity so suspend nila ang hospital for 3 months. But ang kaso sa PhilHealth is appealable to the CA not sa RTC because ang level ng PhilHealth board parang RTC, being a quasi-judicial body. Now the CA appealed the decision of PhilHealth, and they filed for MR, the hospital, it was again denied. What the hospital did was go back to PhilHealth and appeal. And PhilHealth, the whole board, granted the appeal. So how could the PhilHealth board reverse the decision of the CA? Hindi naman kailangan maging lawyers tayo para malaman natin ang hierarchy of courts. A lower court cannot reverse the decision which in this case they themselves initiated. May resolution sila na ganoong decision upheld ng CA. Nang bumalik sa kanila ni-reverse nila, for humanitarian reason reverse natin ang CA.”
“Another case in point. When I issued a statement na at the very least Sec Duque could have also tendered his courtesy resignation when the board members were asked by PRRD to tender their courtesy resignations. Not for anything not for him to project admission of guilt because a courtesy resignation is not an admission of guilt. Instead of just keeping quiet, he came out sa media saying bakit inuungkat ni SPML ang kasong na-dismiss na? So I started. Of course, he challenged me to do something so I did something. And I found out that the Regional Office 1 of PhilHealth is housed in a building, I have here a copy of the contract of lease, owned by Sec Duque. It is located in Tapuac district in Dagupan City. This is just the start of some extensive research or investigation I am conducting because not only against Sec Duque. Ang nakakainis sa isang opisyal ng gobyerno, alam mong may mali ka na nagiipokrito ka pa because he is projecting may unblemished record for 35 years. Now look. In 2004 if you recall, ang Greater Medical Access na ginamit ang OWWA Medicare Fund, dinivert nila papunta sa pambili ng PhilHealth cards. Ang nakalagay roon litrato ni PGMA kasi kandidato siya noong 2004. And distribute nila sa area kung saan alam nila talo sila sa the late FPJ. But that is not enough. Ang ginawa nila, ex-PGMA contacted PCSO and directed them to release P6B to PhilHealth pang-logisitics, pang-distribute ng mga PhilHealth cards in those areas. P6B. In the meantime that PCSO had not remitted the amount, PhilHealth advanced the P6B. Now I have the financial record. I don’t know the status of the P6B if it has been liquidated already. Ang P6B pinagbili ng sasakyan sa LGUs pero ang purpose i-distribute ang PhilHealth cards. Again this is going back in time. But hindi pa naman ito, I know there’s no investigation conducted yet in this regard, ang P6B. And I want to find out anong status ng P6B? PCSO did not remit and in-advance ito ng PhilHealth, not for health services but to distribute the PhilHealth cards used in the 2004 campaign.”
“What makes it more important and significant is that papasok na tayo sa batas na pinasa ni Sen JV. Ito advocacy rin ng PRRD ito kasi siya nag-trigger ipasa ang UHC on top of the free tuition act. P257B requirement for this year, pagkakatiwalaan pa ba natin sa PhilHealth? Nakapag-set aside na ang Congress napasa sa BCC meron nang P217B short ng P40B. nagdagdag tayo sa sin tax para maka-generate ng additional amount P22B projected para ipasok sa PhilHealth. If these controversies or anomalies are not exposed, tuloy-tuloy ang ligaya ng PhilHealth. It is PhilHealth that is crafting the IRRs. So we must all be on guard in our own little way kung papaano bantayan ang hospital or PhilHealth officials involved sa anomalies.”
On Sec. Duque’s ‘conflict of interest’:
“If this is not conflict of interest I don’t know what is. Building mo, naka-contract of lease ka, and that is a family corporation. Educational and Medical Devt Corp. Tapos you are a member of the board. Narito ang General Information Sheet. And the signatory in the contract of lease is his own sister. I have the documents already.”
“When the 18th Congress opens most likely I will (investigate). Actually I was planning to deliver a privilege speech rito but information keeps coming in and I was just challenged by the statement of Sec Duque na bakit ko pa inungkat ang 2004 at unblemished ang record niya as a public servant for so many years. And then I found out papaano maging unblemished sarili mong building paupa mo sa PhilHealth na ikaw chairman of the board?”
“We’re barely scratching the surface. It is our obligation as public officials, as elected senators, to get to the bottom of any corrupt act. And this involves P254B. On top of the P257B that is required to implement the UHC.”
“When you connect the dots a whole story is being formed. We cannot stomach because we keep raising taxes. Ako sobrang mapagbantay sa national budget because I always consider the national budget the lifeblood of our economy if not the country itself. Ang taxes din lifeblood din yan kasi yan nagbibigay ng dugo sa veins ng ating economy, ng ating bansa. Tapos makarinig tayo ng P250B being squandered by these people. Di ba kayo magagalit? This has become systemic. And it’s good it is coming out.”
On partisan critics:
“No matter how my own critics are saying na balimbing, di maintindihan ang position. Ang problema kasi ang divisiveness sa bansa natin has become too deep. It’s either kasi pag meron kang position na mukhang tingin nila favor sa kanila isang partisan group, expect nila lahat na sasabihin mo dapat pabor sa kanila otherwise mali ka na, which is a wrong attitude. Hindi ba pwedeng doon tayo sa whether tama o mali ako? At least pinaniniwalaan kong tama doon ako papunta, and that’s my call. But to accuse me of being magulo and di malaman ang position, balimbing, and so forth, that is also unfair.”
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