At the Kapihan sa Senado forum, Sen. Lacson answered questions on:
– ‘Bikoy’ caper
– Palace’s new matrix
– May 13 midterm elections
– businesses of foreign nationals in PH that discriminate against Filipinos
Quotes from the interview…
On the ‘Bikoy’ caper:
“Now it can be told. This is regarding the Bikoy caper. The Senate President and I would have wanted, as we originally intended to summon Bikoy to a committee hearing and testify, continue to perjure himself, then we would call in Hutch Altabas to refute whatever documents Bikoy would produce and the testimony, including the sworn statement, he had prepared. Of course it did not happen.
Ang reason doon, usapan namin dito. It is not as if hindi kami coordinate with SP. We always do. Alam nyo naman lagi kaming nag-uusap. Ang reason, gusto sana namin makita sino ang mga kasama ni Bikoy pumasok pagpunta sa Senate. Without asking him kung sino ang nagba-back sa kanya, nagsusuporta, pwede makita natin… Sabi sa akin ni SP paano ito meron akong Kapihan bukas, sigurado tatanong sa akin yan. Kung ganon sabi ko, i-expose mo na lang and hindi natin itutuloy hearing. By that time I already saw the documents, the SS, and I saw the attachments. And then na-prepare na rin nila ang matrix, pardon the word. Na-juxtapose na ang May 2019 pati ang mga video series at naikumpara na sa kanyang SS dated Dec 2016. And napaka-obvious, napaka-glaring naman talaga ng similarities, mga words repeated. Ang isang natandaan ko roon, yung kay Paolo Duterte, 0029, tapos noong December may Tierra Alpha or Alpha Tierra whatever is the correct identity code, 029. So napaka-obvious na trabahong tamad ni Bikoy. Di na siya nagisip ng ibang numero. And the Misibis Bay, Quadrangle, ito ang key words na napaka-obvious na rehashed, pinalitan lang ang cast of characters pero ang circumstances at ang inimbento parehong pareho. So hinog na hinog sana si Bikoy para mai-contempt. Kasi hindi na namin papakawala yan.
Pag natuloy bukas ang hearing at nariyan siya meron siyang sworn statement meron siyang dokumento at nakapag-testify siya under oath and then papasok si Hutch and refute with his own documents na nanggaling din kay Bikoy, di ba napaka-appropriate for contempt? And marami pa tayong malalaman.
At this point, of course nasabi ko na rin ito, asking Bikoy who are behind him, malaking problema. Maniniwala ba tayo sa kanya kung anong sasabihin niya pa? Wala na kasi zero credibility. Maski magsabi siya ng pangalan ito nakausap ko ito nag-maneuver sa akin ito nagutos sa akin, wala na tayong papaniwaalan sa sinabi niya. He has been exposed.”
On whether the Senate will still entertain Bikoy even if he submits an affidavit:
“No more. Because it doesn’t make sense. Sabi ko nga enough of this nonsense. Because nonsense naman talaga ang sinabi niya at ginagawa niya. So why deal with a person with that character? Kayo na mismo kung kayo tatanungin ko gusto nyo pa ba magka-hearing? E di nagaaksaya tayo ng oras. Nakikipag-ungguyan tayo roon.”
On finding out who is behind Bikoy:
“Ang effort manggaling na sa executive branch. Ang binabantan doon members of the First Family and some other personalities. We should leave it to the DOJ, NBI and PNP to find out sino nasa likod ni Bikoy. But for the Senate to still intervene and exert effort to find out, hindi na namin trabaho yan.”
“Hindi ko alam kung pareho (ang handler ni Bikoy in 2016 and 2019). Pero may nag-handle sa kanya noon based on information na mga sabihin ko nang active members of the PNP at the time. Noong 2016. Kung sino nag-handle sa kanya ngayon kung the same people di ko na alam yan. Pero based on the information I gathered, he was working with some PNP personnel who were still active at the time.”
“But of course that’s subject to validation. I was given names of police officers who were working with him at the time kaya lumabas noong 2016. Ang target noon sina ex-President PNoy, Mar Roxas, Jojo Ochoa, ang mga personalities ng nakaraang administration. Ang isa lang nakita kong motivation, ang motive ng police officers, siguro they wanted to be under the good graces of the new admin at the time because kauupo lang ng Duterte admin.”
“Wala akong idea who is behind Bikoy now. Noong 2016 yan lang information na pumasok na at the time mga active na some are ranking police officials who were working with him.”
“Some of those people kilala ko personally. If I will have the time I would like to talk to them and ask them and ask them kung meron ba silang kinalaman sa 2016 affidavit ni Bikoy.”
“Pwede silang pumatol sa ganoong klaseng information para magpapogi. Sabi ko nga, may element sa PNP na ganoon ang kultura. Even during my time ganoon, papogihan para umangat sa position. Na-politicize na rin, pag nagpalit ng administration, siyempre parang advance to be recognized, pakitang gilas ka, kami Sir meron kaming information tintuturo rito sina PNoy, etc., ang mga ganoon.”
“I wouldn’t know kung na-promote sila. Meron talagang ganoong elements sa PNP. I hope sana mawala ang ganoong klase.”
“Ang initial na iiisip ko is to talk to those people because some of them I know personally. Malliit na grupo lang ito, siguro mga 5-6 police officers… Siguro admonish (ko sila), huwag nyo na ulitin yan. Rise on your own merits. Di yung magra-rise kayo at the expense of others at gagawa ng hindi totoo. That’s unfair.”
On legislation to deter fake witnesses:
“As early as ginawa niya noong 2016 mukhang meron siyang mga katrabaho noon na mga tao. But sabi ko di na ako interesado kasi na-expose na ang tao. But overtaken na rin dahil even after the Matobato-Lascanas testimonies, I already filed a Senate Bill, 253, amending Art 180, 183, 184 ng Revised Penal Code. Ito ang mga false testimonies. And pati ang taong nag-i-induce sa isang tao na nagsu-suborn para mag-commit ng perjury tinaas namin na 12 years and 1 day to 20 years. Reclusion temporal. Tapos ang tao kung public official, meron yan kasamang absolute permanent disqualification from being elected or appointed sa public office.”
“Kami kasi in aid of legislation. Mabuti na rin ito. Parang na-renew ang consciousness natin na dapat talaga itaas ang mga penalties sa false testimony. I just hope the bill I filed noon, gumalaw sa committee. Na-refer ito sa committee on justice and human rights. I understand di pa nagkaroon ng committee hearing. And with this development sana magkaroon ng priority, even in the HOR magkaroon ng counterpart bill kung wala, para ma-tackle na. And pagpasok ng 18th Congress sana mai-discuss; otherwise, ilan ba, ang kulong 1 buwan? Mawiwili talaga.”
“I hope pagbalik namin sa May 20 mai-tackle man lang sa committee para pagusapan.”
On details of Bikoy’s claims:
“Wala rin. Obviously imbento. Sabi ni SP chineck niya sa HSBC, nonexistent ang account, in the same manner ako pina-check ko ang sinasabi ni Ador Mawanay na bank accounts ko sa HK, Citibank. I wrote Citibank paki-check ito, kasi worry ko baka talagang dineposito nina GMA ang account tapos mai-prove point nila, iwi-withdraw. So I lost no time to verify with Citibank HK kanino ang accounts na I listed down. Ang sagot sa akin nonexistent ang account. Ang first 4 digits, code pertaining to the bank. Kaya ko nalaman ganoon ang pattern. Kaya kung tinatanong mo kung credible ang SS especially now we have seen the statement ni Bikoy plus ang kanyang video series, obviously wala rin talagang value ang Dec 2016 SS niya.”
On whether Bikoy’s claims are election-related:
“Posible yan. You can think of as many motives you can think of but si Bikoy lang ang nakakaalam ano ang motibo. But knowing him as a known swindler, estapador, baka motivation niya pera. Pwede sabi ni SP, gusto niya ma-pardon o makalabas sa kulungan, maging witness. Or kung anuman, but ang bottom line is, hindi siya dapat paniwalaan.”
“I will not think anymore of having him as a whistleblower, or as a witness. Wala. Zero credibility. Hindi na nga dapat natin pinaguusapan pa.”
On Bikoy’s ‘implication’ of Sen de Lima:
“Kaya nga nang nabasa ko comment niya naawa ako sa kanya. Sabi ko gusto ko siya tawagan sana, uy, kasama ka noong 2016, huwag ka muna mag-comment.”
“Nasa akin pa ang kanyang cell phone number. Gustong gusto ko siya tawagan baka masundan niya pagalit pa, bago malulong, sabihin ko sana, tigil ka muna kasi kasama ka 2016. Pag sinabi mong credible yan…”
On matrix linking Bong Banal to destabilization:
“I don’t know about that. Unang una, hindi rin ako bilib sa matrix na pinalabas ni Sec Panelo. Why? For a simple reason. Hidilyn Diaz, gem yan eh. Parang nakapaguwi siya ng (medal). Sa Senate hinonor namin siya. Nag-pass kami ng resolution congratulating her. She has brought honor and pride, prestige to the country. Tapos biglang masasali roon. May time ba ang bata makialam sa destabilization? And then Gretchen Ho. She has started to carve out a name for herself sa media, parang napaka-unlikely. Kung sino ang nag-prepare ng matrix or information na yan, parang kulang sa research or wala sa hulog.”
“Whatever it is pero dapat pinagaralan munang mabuti. Only for that reason. Kasi can you imagine Hidilyn Diaz engaging in destabilization? It doesn’t make sense to me, unless sabi ko nga, ang intelligence community performed an excellent intelligence work, na talagang ganoon kalalim ang kanilang pagsasagawa ng intelligence, ang pag-gather ng intelligence. Or baka na-infiltrate na sila ni Bikoy. Medyo incredible at this point in time, at face value. Of course, they will have to explain the circumstances leading to the alleged involvement of Hidilyn Diaz and Gretchen Ho. At least ang dalawa. The only person na talagang involved sa effort to overthrow the government, talagang I will not contest that because he’s been doing that for the last 50 years, si Joma Sison. Yan talagang tama yan.”
“Sa akin kasi pag intel work at di pa validated and work in progress, dapat huwag ilabas. I-develop mo, gather the corresponding evidence, and then pounce on them. But to brief media on an intelligence report, kung totoo ang mga personalities, totoo ang laman ng intelligence report, e din winarningan mo lang ang possible quarry mo. Mag-iingat na yan. Hindi mo na mahuhuli. Unless the reason is to preempt, sabihin lang na hoy, alam naming may pinaplano kayo huwag nyo nang ituloy.”
“Hindi naman kailangan i-counter si Bikoy, kasi in-expose na ni SP. Ano pa bang pang-counter kay Bikoy? Wala nang kailangan. Sabihin na nating because of the SS in December 2016, and because of the documents. In-observe namin ang attachments. Ang kapal ng binigay niya kay Hutch. Pero ang Page 1-4 and so on, pare-pareho ang account number, kinopya niya. It’s as if ganyan kakapal ang bank accounts. Pero pag in-examine mo bank accounts halos yun din inulit lang. So trabahong tamad talaga.”
On Sec Panelo’s use of voice comparison:
“May technology talagang na mag-i-identify, ang voice analysis. Nagamit din namin ito when I was still in the service. But scientific talaga yan, iko-confirm talaga kung ang nagsasalita is the same person as being identified to be the one talking. Meron talagang ganoon. Kung meron silang hawak na ganoon, may basis ang sinasabi ni Sec Panelo na hindi ito ang nasa video, hindi ito ang Bikoy na lumabas, kung meron silang ganoong findings. Pero medyo mahal yan, ang mag-voice analysis. I don’t know if meron na tayo in country ng ganoong technical capability but at the time I remember when I was in the service we were seeking the help of the Australian Federal Police. Sila ang may ganyan pero mahal yan.”
On possibility of Joma and groups like Magdalo working together:
“Yun pa isa. Kaya sinasabi ko doon lang tumama na ang gusto mag-overthrow because he’s been doing it for the past 50 years. Pero all others lalo kung magkakasama ang mga grupong ganoon parang unlikely rin. Paano sila mag-conspire?”
On claims that matrix was a waste of intelligence funds:
“Kung yan ang klase ng output ng intel work, pwede mong sabihin sayang ang intel fund.”
“We’ll ask them that, if they’re still worth the amount they are being allocated.”
On the matrix linking political and journalist groups to destabilization:
“It’s up to the source of the intelligence information kung sino ang nagbuo ng matrix, dapat sila nakakaalam anong basis. I think it’s now incumbent among those people to at least give some details, bakit sinasabi nilang involved ito. Tutal nasa labas na rin lang, parang declassified na eh. So dapat i-justify nila anong kinalaman ni Hidilyn Diaz. Parang kaunting detalye para maging believable, para maging credible. Anong kinalaman ng Otso Diretso? Anong kinalaman ni Sec Lacierda? Parang idetalye nila ang specific acts that led us to come up with this report, because ito ang based on intelligence information we gathered. Now kung nakuha ito sa wiretapping or technical intelligence, that’s another matter. They will not admit na gumamit sila ng technical intelligence because obviously it’s against RA 4200.”
“Of course ang mga critics ganoon ang sasabihin (na may chilling effect). Pero hindi naman pwede i-judge agad na yan ang purpose ng Malacanang for divulging that kind of information. Ang ano ko lang, at face value I wouldn’t believe the extent of participation ng several personalities.”
On whether SP Sotto will retain his post:
“Yes. Obvious naman. Pag tiningnan mo ang landscape sa possible na manalo at hindi manalo, lamang na lamang talaga hindi ma-oust. At maganda ang leadership ni SP. There’s no reason to replace him at this point in time. He’s handling the Senate very, very well, as a matter of fact.”
On actions vs discrimination by foreigner-owned businesses:
“Nagbigay na ng instruction sa regional directors to look for Chinese establishments, not only Chinese establishments but other nationalities na pag ang tindahan may discrimination i-report kasi bawal talaga yan. Ang sinasabi kong nakaka-worry yung na-flood tayo ng mga small businesses, small investments na ikokompetensya ang ating SMEs. Ang pag-asa ng mga kababayan nating makapag-put up ng maliit na negosyo at umasenso made-deny sila. Dapat ang DTI even the LGUs should be more selective in issuing permits. Kasi dadaan ka naman sa DTI kung mag-register ka, or sa BOI mag-register ka ng single proprietorship. Ang threshold yata is 2.5M. Ang mga big investments that run into billions of pesos okay yan because it will definitely help our economy. But for other nationals na iko-compete pa ang kaya naman natin not only in the business sector but even in the labor sector, yan sana regulatory agencies natin dapat maging alert sila. Kasama na rin dito of course dummies ang ginagamit so ang anti-dummy law dapat ma-implement properly. But the worst talaga, ito talagang kukulo ang dugo mo, pagka Pilipino hindi makapasok sa restaurant na nasa Pilipinas. Maski sino sa atin magagalit pag ganoon.”
“Sana dahil ngayon aware na sila at may instruction si Sec Lopez, dapat talaga extra effort to protect our own people, kababayan natin.”
“Ang PH Retailers Association they issued a statement tama na dapat protektahan natin ang sariling kababayan natin at hindi ang mga foreign nationals.”
“May batas na existing alam ng DTI yan. Alam nilang it’s against the law kung ma-discriminate ang pagpasok ng Pilipino sa Chinese restaurant na ipagbabawal. O may existing laws ano ang threshold para makapasok sa business. The DTI can easily issue a circular or department order para ma-implement ang ganoong patakaran.”
“I already reminded them and they reacted naman, may instruction na si Sec Lopez.”
“Pwede naman (isara) kasi kung may violation, pwede pasara ng LGU o national agencies. May existing laws eh.”
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